From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 1 00:40:29 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id AAA27126 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id AAA27047 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id AAA13797 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:40:01 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id IAA06520 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id IAA13166 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:42:00 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id IAA05443; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:41:58 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:37:40 +0100 From: Nicolas POINTEAU Message-ID: <37A2EE13.59B6A81C at enserg.fr> Organization: University of Warwick, UK Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!newshost.lanl.gov!awabi.library.ucla.edu!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!207.8.136.130!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!nntp.crosslink.net!128.98.1.6.MISMATCH!newsfeed.eris.dera.gov.uk!ftel.ftel.co.uk!warwick!not-for-mail Subject: Fits convert into (bmp,tif,gif) Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I'm looking how the programming convert FITS images. I can open these 16 bits FITS images with the MATLAB code, and then I'd like to convert image into 8 bits. I don't succeed. I think that we have to define High and Low level to do this convertion, but I don't know how it works. Thanks for your answer. Research Student. J.FISCHER From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 3 15:49:47 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id PAA27138 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA27133 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA22362 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:49:16 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id NAA26335 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA22073 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:30:49 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id NAA17079; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:30:48 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:22:01 GMT From: ascotti at netscape.net (Alessandro Scotti) Message-ID: Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!nautilus References: <37A2EE13.59B6A81C at enserg.fr> Subject: Re: Fits convert into (bmp,tif,gif) Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article <37A2EE13.59B6A81C at enserg.fr>, Nicolas POINTEAU wrote: >I'm looking how the programming convert FITS images. I can open these 16 >bits FITS images with the MATLAB code, and then I'd like to convert >image into 8 bits. I don't succeed. I think that we have to define High >and Low level to do this convertion, but I don't know how it works. Conversion from 16 to 8 bit can be done quite simply by discarding the lower 8 bits, that is by shifting right 8 bits. Now I'm sure you have tried this and I don't know MATLAB so maybe it's a problem due to the FITS specifications. In FITS there are two numbers called DATAMIN and DATAMAX: all samples fall within the range specified by these two numbers. Now if for example MINVAL=23 and MAXVAL=191 you can encode the FITS using 8 bits, 16 bits, 32 bits and even floating point values and all this numbers will be exactly the same. It this is the case then by shifting right you are destroying the information which is only placed in the lower bits! So I would try to scale the values (keeping into account BZERO and BSCALE) into the full 16 bit range or even direcly to the 8 bit range. Also a problem I have found with some FITS images is that they use only a part of the allowed range and are in need of a (histogram) contrast stretch. If this doesn't work let me know and I'll provide you some source code to read FITS into 8 bit gray and RGB. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Fri Aug 6 09:41:53 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id JAA24860 for fitsbits-spinner; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id JAA24855 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA30009 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:41:03 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id JAA24843 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA29955 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:27:45 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA17289; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:27:44 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:35:43 GMT From: super_banane at my-deja.com Message-ID: <7oehaf$vk$1 at nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail References: <37A2EE13.59B6A81C at enserg.fr> Subject: Re: Fits convert into (bmp,tif,gif) Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article <37A2EE13.59B6A81C at enserg.fr>, Nicolas POINTEAU wrote: > I'm looking how the programming convert FITS images. I can open these 16 > bits FITS images with the MATLAB code, and then I'd like to convert > image into 8 bits. I don't succeed. I think that we have to define High > and Low level to do this convertion, but I don't know how it works. > Hello: If you are just looking for a utility that converts FITS files pixel depths, you might be interested in the following stand-alone C code: http://www.eso.org/~ndevilla/saft Go to the bottom of the page and have a look at 'iofits'. It does pixel depth conversion between all possible FITS types. Beware that no scaling is applied, though. 'iofits' is stand-alone, i.e. you do not need any special library or compiler nor external programs to compile and use it. Just do: gcc -o iofits iofits.c ... and you're done. Hope it helps, -- Nicolas PS: This posting address ( at my-deja.com) is phony to avoid spam. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Thu Aug 19 09:16:44 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id JAA21451 for fitsbits-spinner; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id JAA21446 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA20642 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id BAA18484 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id BAA19779 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:02:52 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id BAA14518; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:02:50 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:49:36 -0700 From: "Dumbo" Message-ID: Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!lynx.unm.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net.POSTED!not-for-mail References: <7mo0n4$qjn$1 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <199907161959.PAA24273 at gorilla.cv.nrao.edu> <3795F83C.C2681831 at dc3.com> <37A081BE.48C66C94 at tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: "Dumbo" Subject: Re: programs which support FITS Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk William Pence wrote in message news:37A081BE.48C66C94 at tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov... > Bob Denny wrote [to Bill Cotton]: > > > > I just wanted to thank you for FITSView! There's a lot of great technology > > hidden behind its modest user interface. I am just about to release some > > amateur/educational software that generates and uses WCS, and I have used > > your program tons of times myself and for demonstrations to show why > > everyone should be using WCS. Your histogram EQ is virtually perfect for > > eyeball work without having to adjust the B and C controls. > > > > The port of fv from the FITS Tools is abysmal as far as its user interface > > goes. It won't even fit on an 800x600 screen, and the controls are > > unbelievably baroque. Just try blinking images :-) Plus it has to install a > > monster load of emulation junk just for that one program. > > > > Bob, > > Sorry you didn't have a good first impression of fv. First, make sure that > you are using the latest 2.5 version that was released in May 1999; it sounds > like you may have an old version. > > Fv is designed to view and edit any FITS file, possibly containing multiple > tables and/or images, so the user interface has many menus and options. > There is a short tutorial/user's guide available from the fv web site that > explains how to use many of the features for new users. > > As for fitting on an 800x600 screen, you can select a default image window > ranging from 300x300 to 700x700 pixels in size, which should suit any screen > resolution. Regardless of the default size, you can interactively resize the > images by dragging a corner with the mouse. > > Blinking of 2 images can be done very quickly and easily: open and display > both images (they initially appear side by side on the display canvas), click > on the 'merge graphs' option to combine both images in the same graph, then > click on 'blink images' to start the blinking. You can blink any number of > images at one time (not just 2), and the position registration of the images > is determined by the WCS information, so the images do not need to have the > same size or scale. You can also pan and zoom within the images while the > blinking is in progress. > > Other useful image display features in fv are: > > - draws a grid of RA and DEC lines over the image > - contour plots can be generated and combined with other > images (e.g., draw optical contours on top of a radio image) > - brightness/contrast and panning/zooming are interactively > adjustable by dragging the mouse over the image > - 20 different color mappings, and 3 different intensity scaling > options (linear, log, or square root) are provided. > > Histogram equalization is not currently provided, but that is high on the list > of enhancements for the next release. > > Finally, the installation of fv is intended to be easy and quick. The windows > .zip file is only 2.6MB in size. Fv is written in native Tcl/Tk code, so it > is not an emulation. > > So, we hope you will give fv another try. It is available from the fv web site > at: > > http://legacy.gsfc.nasa.gov/ftools/fv/ > > We can also send a version on CDROM to Linux PC users. Any questions, > problems, or suggestions about fv should be sent to: > > ftoolshelp at athena.gsfc.nasa.gov > > regards, > Bill Pence > (for the ftools group) Fv was the only viewer that let me look at the spectra stored at the ADC. Bizzarely however after I tried unsuccessfuly using the fv with the full Ftool install it wouldnt work. It just kept on giving invalid Fit file errors every time I tried to view them. Frustrated I uninstalled it and some days later and tried the lite fv download on its own. Voila, it worked. Not sure why the lite download would work where the full one didnt but I assume its down to an IUI error (Insufficient User Intelligence). Anyways now I am happily looking at my spectra so the point is moot ;) Thanks for a great (and free) product. _dumbo From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Thu Aug 19 11:52:47 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id LAA21673 for fitsbits-spinner; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id LAA21668 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id LAA21460 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:52:25 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id LAA21625 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palantir.cv.nrao.edu (tismail at palantir.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.254]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id LAA21365 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:35:32 -0400 Received: (from tismail at localhost) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06437 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:35:09 -0400 Received: from wheelo.gsfc.nasa.gov(128.183.50.20) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma006425; Thu Aug 19 11:34:55 1999 Received: from tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov (tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.16.178]) by wheelo.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23574; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13710; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37BC22A5.7300F0F7 at tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:28:37 -0400 From: William Pence Organization: NASA/GSFC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu, Dumbo Subject: Re: programs which support FITS References: <7mo0n4$qjn$1 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <199907161959.PAA24273 at gorilla.cv.nrao.edu> <3795F83C.C2681831 at dc3.com> <37A081BE.48C66C94 at tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk This difference is probably explained by the fact that the stand-alone version of fv available from http://legacy.gsfc.nasa.gov/ftools/fv/ is a later version than the one that was distributed with the ftools software release. This later version has more features and has fixed a few bugs. Also, this is not a 'lite' version in the sense that it has all the features, and much more, than in the ftools release version. -Bill Pence Dumbo wrote: > > Fv was the only viewer that let me look at the spectra stored at the ADC. > > Bizzarely however after I tried unsuccessfuly using the fv with the full > Ftool install it wouldnt work. It just kept on giving invalid Fit file > errors every time I tried to view them. Frustrated I uninstalled it and some > days later and tried the lite fv download on its own. Voila, it worked. > > Not sure why the lite download would work where the full one didnt but I > assume its down to an IUI error (Insufficient User Intelligence). > > Anyways now I am happily looking at my spectra so the point is moot ;) > Thanks for a great (and free) product. > > _dumbo From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Fri Aug 20 10:32:57 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id KAA26347 for fitsbits-spinner; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id KAA26342 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id KAA24450 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:32:27 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id UAA21950 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id UAA23162 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:38:53 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id UAA06818; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:38:52 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:37:49 GMT From: Richard Dodson Message-ID: Organization: Another Optus Customer Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed.aone.net.au!ozemail.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news0.optus.net.au!not-for-mail Subject: Reading AIPS tapes with NT or VMS Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I have a problem - a AIPS DAT tape made (with FITTP I believe) on UNIX and no DAT tape drive. I have found a DAT tape drive on a VMS machine (don't ask!) and a NT machine. Has anyone got any suggestions how I can get to my data? Richard PS Best mail any suggestions - this news group appeared to be empty, I don't think it is being downloaded here. -- Richard Dodson : Post-Doctoral Fellow (Radio Astronomy), University of Tasmania email : Richard.Dodson at utas.edu.au WWW : http://www-ra.phys.utas.edu.au/~rdodson Phone : 6248 5285 or 6226 2414 (Work) ; Area Code : +61 3 (International) 6223 5542 (Home), 6226 2410 (Fax) 03 (Australia) There is no hope to recover near future without any lack. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 24 16:07:32 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id QAA19593 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id QAA19588 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id QAA06987 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:06:07 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA19433 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA06838 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:19:58 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA31475; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:19:58 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:55:42 -0700 From: Lee Elson Message-ID: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory - Pasadena CA Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!usenet Subject: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Dear Colleague: We have made available the first full release of our free Java-based science visualization and analysis package, WebWinds. To download a copy of this release, go to http://webwinds.jpl.nasa.gov. Key features of this package include: * Cross platform capability: Windows (95/98/NT), Mac, Unix/Linux. * The ability to present and manipulate 2 and 3 dimensional data in a variety of 1 and 2 dimensional display tools. * The ability to subset and subsample data on input or display output, making it possible to handle very large data sets. * Simultaneous display and analysis of multiple data sets which may be unrelated. * Interactive data, image and color manipulation. * The ability to act as a Web browser helper application, making it possible to survey scientific data archives in interactive mode. * A scripting language which allows session configuration, re-run and real-time network collaboration, automatically. * A context sensitive help system. * Complete documentation including examples. This version has several new features: 1) Modified or original data may be saved in several formats including FITS and NetCDF. 2) Most types of files may be stacked together (concatenated) to produce a larger file. This allows, for example, daily maps of a quantity to be combined to produce a file which can be animated. Subfiles within a file can also be concatenated in some cases. 3) HDF files can be displayed using included geolocation information. 4) A new Overlay tool allows tabular (ASCII) data to be superimposed on an Image. These overlays can show variations in symbol size, color and range and thus represent the numerical value of the tabular data. 5) Shortcuts can be generated automatically with macros. 6) A new Pause tool allows the temporary delay of the execution of a script, allowing, e.g., the dynamic selection of a file. 7) Separate, complete installation packages for PC, Mac, Sun, SGI and Linux systems. This enables 'one stop' shopping and simple installation. 8) WebWinds is compatible with Java 2 (JDK 1.2). 9) The ability to display several types of coordinate projections for some types of data. 10) An enhanced capability to read in different data types. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Wed Aug 25 16:24:23 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id QAA26065 for fitsbits-spinner; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id QAA26060 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id QAA11091 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:23:26 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA25845 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA10989 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:21:09 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA30553; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:21:09 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 25 Aug 1999 19:19:36 GMT From: nolan at alumni.caltech.edu (Michael C. Nolan) Message-ID: <7q1fk8$fiv at gap.cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Arecibo Observatory Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!uchinews2!nntp-server.caltech.edu!nolan Subject: Complex images Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I need to make some complex-valued images. As there is no complex BITPIX, I guess I need a real/imaginary axis. Does anybody have established conventions for this? Thanks, -Mike Nolan -- Mike Nolan +1 787 878 2612x334 Fax: +1 787 878 1861 nolan at *naic.edu Arecibo Observatory/Cornell University, HC03 Box 53995, Arecibo, PR 00612 USA From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 29 14:22:05 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id OAA15391 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA15386 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA25909 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:21:18 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id KAA15256 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA25529 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:19:32 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id KAA26784; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:19:31 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:19:28 GMT From: coldrake at escape.ca (David Ball) Message-ID: Organization: MBnet Networking Inc. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.mbnet.mb.ca!typhoon.mbnet.mb.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk "Spamfree" wrote: >Beautiful. Yet more commercial spam. Can't these turlingdromes understand >that the world was not intended to be one huge advertisement? >But then again - what would you expect from a government employee? >-- >Friends don't let friends use e-bay >E-bay: proud sponsor of Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign It's sci.geo.meteorology, sir. One aspect of the science of meteorology is the ability to visualize data. I don't have a problem with a post like this, and I suspect there are many who don't. There are regular posts to this group from people looking for software, data, etc. I'm always on the hunt for new software that will help me do my job a little better. While you are entitled to your opinion, it is just that, your opinion. Until they rename this newsgroup, sci.geo.spamfree, I don't believe it is appropriate for you to assume that you have a either the wit or the intellect to decide for all of the users out there what they might want to know about. -- David Ball From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 29 14:22:05 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id OAA15384 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA15379 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA25902 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:20:50 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id JAA15247 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA25497 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:55:55 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA26169; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:55:54 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 29 Aug 1999 06:55:49 PDT From: "Spamfree" Message-ID: <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Organization: Concentric Internet Services Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Beautiful. Yet more commercial spam. Can't these turlingdromes understand that the world was not intended to be one huge advertisement? But then again - what would you expect from a government employee? -- Friends don't let friends use e-bay E-bay: proud sponsor of Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign Lee Elson wrote in message news:37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov... > Dear Colleague: > > We have made available the first full release of our free Java-based > science visualization and analysis package, WebWinds. > To download a copy of this release, go to http://webwinds.jpl.nasa.gov. > Key features of this package include: > > * Cross platform capability: Windows (95/98/NT), Mac, Unix/Linux. > > * The ability to present and manipulate 2 and 3 dimensional data in > a variety of 1 and 2 dimensional display tools. > > * The ability to subset and subsample data on input or display output, > making it possible to handle very large data sets. > > * Simultaneous display and analysis of multiple data sets which may be > unrelated. > > * Interactive data, image and color manipulation. > > * The ability to act as a Web browser helper application, making it > possible to > survey scientific data archives in interactive mode. > > * A scripting language which allows session configuration, re-run > and real-time network collaboration, automatically. > > * A context sensitive help system. > > * Complete documentation including examples. > > > This version has several new features: > > 1) Modified or original data may be saved in several formats including > FITS and NetCDF. > > 2) Most types of files may be stacked together (concatenated) to produce > a larger file. > This allows, for example, daily maps of a quantity to be combined to > produce a file > which can be animated. Subfiles within a file can also be concatenated > in some cases. > > 3) HDF files can be displayed using included geolocation information. > > 4) A new Overlay tool allows tabular (ASCII) data to be superimposed on > an Image. > These overlays can show variations in symbol size, color and range and > thus > represent the numerical value of the tabular data. > > 5) Shortcuts can be generated automatically with macros. > > 6) A new Pause tool allows the temporary delay of the execution of a > script, > allowing, e.g., the dynamic selection of a file. > > 7) Separate, complete installation packages for PC, Mac, Sun, SGI and > Linux systems. This > enables 'one stop' shopping and simple installation. > > 8) WebWinds is compatible with Java 2 (JDK 1.2). > > 9) The ability to display several types of coordinate projections for > some types of data. > > 10) An enhanced capability to read in different data types. > > From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 29 14:22:07 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id OAA15398 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA15393 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA25914 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:01 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id NAA15360 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA25726 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:18 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id NAA31794; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:18 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 29 Aug 1999 16:51:54 GMT From: fl_aggie at thepentagon.com (I R A Darth Aggie) Message-ID: Organization: Texas A&M University - Tallahassee Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!gatech!news.fsu.edu!fl_aggie References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk On 29 Aug 1999 06:55:49 PDT, Spamfree , in <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> wrote: + Beautiful. Yet more commercial spam. Really? I thought it was free. Am I mistaken? have you filed a complaint regarding misuse of a government computer to post commercial ads? do you know what you speak of? I'm sorry, but that wasn't spam by any known metric. + But then again - what would you expect from a government employee? He took time from his schedule to alert us to a free, meteorologically- oriented visualization package. It is an on-topic post for this group. Remain calm. James -- Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at: From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 29 14:22:27 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id OAA15423 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA15418 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA25919 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:22:22 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id NAA15359 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA25727 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:19 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id NAA31795; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:05:18 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 29 Aug 1999 16:53:09 GMT From: fl_aggie at thepentagon.com (I R A Darth Aggie) Message-ID: Organization: Texas A&M University - Tallahassee Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!gatech!news.fsu.edu!fl_aggie References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:19:28 GMT, David Ball , in wrote: + It's sci.geo.meteorology, sir. One aspect of the science of + meteorology is the ability to visualize data. I don't have a problem + with a post like this, and I suspect there are many who don't. *ding*ding*ding* And it wasn't even spam by any definition I'm aware of. James -- Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at: From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sun Aug 29 20:04:49 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id UAA15565 for fitsbits-spinner; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id UAA15560 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id UAA26471 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:04:36 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA15474 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA26051 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:32:04 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA03297; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:32:04 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:31:48 -0500 From: juan at lua.stcloudstate.edu (Juan Cabanela) Message-ID: Organization: Saint Cloud State University Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!juan References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net>, "Spamfree" wrote: >Beautiful. Yet more commercial spam. Can't these turlingdromes understand >that the world was not intended to be one huge advertisement? > >But then again - what would you expect from a government employee? Well, apparently a lot more than I can expect from you. If you had taken a moment before issuing your anti-spam diatribe, you would have realized your attack was uncalled for. The WebWinds groups doesn't produce commercial software, but rather they distribute FREE platform-independent visualization software useful to astronomers (which is why NASA's government employees are involved) and other scientists (explaining the message's placement in certain newsgroups for sciences where visualization is important). The software handles, among other image formats, FITS images, explaining its placement in the sci.astro.fits group. All in all, the message was well targeted to those groups who may have an interest in obtaining this FREE tool. The message was not spam and your attack on the WebWinds group is uncalled for. They provide a free service to those of us who can use the visualization software...so "Spamfree", until you contribue something of comparable value to the community, I suggest you crawl back to the hole you came out. Juan Cabanela (Astronomer Who Plans to Use WebWinds) -- And the useful addresses to report all that junk mail to: fraudinfo at psinet.com (general frauds), pyramid at ftc.gov (MLM stuff) enforcement at sec.gov (investment fraud), jccheezum at uspis.gov (chain letters) net-abuse at nocs.insp.irs.gov (to report MMF senders as possible tax cheats) From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Aug 30 16:22:47 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id QAA20899 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id QAA20893 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:21:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id QAA29146 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:21:55 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id PAA20768 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA28914 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:58:11 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA05827; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:58:11 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:10:55 +0000 From: nick at webthing.com (Nick Kew) Message-ID: Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hyperlens.demon.co.uk!jarl.webthing.com!nobody References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk > It's sci.geo.meteorology, sir. One aspect of the science of ObPedant: it's a crosspost (I'm reading sci.geo.eos). But I agree that the original post was entirely appropriate here too. Next issue: if governments fund development of [XYZ] - in this instance JAVA visualisation software - it can make life hard for commercial developers to compete in the same field (why pay for my product when theirs is free, and backed by the public purse)? As a developer of scientific visualisation software in JAVA, I could be tempted to see public funding for someone elses software as unfair competition. Now, "spamfree" was posting anonymously, so we may never know if (s)he is in this or some analagous situation. -- Nick Kew http://www.webthing.com/software/hyperlens/ - JAVA visualisation s/w http://hyperdaac.webthing.com/ - The intelligent client for NASA DAAC servers. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Aug 30 23:35:07 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id XAA22065 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id XAA22060 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id XAA30334 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:34:45 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id VAA22010 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id VAA30107 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:35:38 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id VAA15554; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:35:37 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 30 Aug 1999 18:34:12 PDT From: "Spamfree" Message-ID: <7qfbek$nb7 at journal.concentric.net> Organization: Concentric Internet Services Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: My appology (was: Re: Free visualization software) Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I am sorry. My complaint was entirely uncalled for and I accept the criticism as valid and well-stated. My critics were far more civilized than I. Some days I get grumpy over what seems to be non-stop (offers, deals, guarantees, porn, pyramid schemes, software, promises, vacations, lotteries, psychic readings, chain letters, charity scams, et al ad nauseam) in newsgroups (and e-mail) and at times I let this get away from me and I overreact. This is not an excuse, for there is none. I should have paid more attention. I apologize to Web Winds, readers of the group and take the lumps I so richly deserve. -- Friends don't let friends use e-bay E-bay: proud sponsor of Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Aug 30 23:35:37 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id XAA22079 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id XAA22074 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id XAA30343 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:35:32 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id WAA22046 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id WAA30191 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:51:49 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id WAA17645; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:51:48 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:50:27 GMT From: Russell Martin Message-ID: <37CB4355.4AC0 at mail.wdn.com> Organization: R. L. Martin and Associates Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!yellow.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!POSTED.monger.newsread.com!not-for-mail References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Reply-To: russell.martin at mail.wdn.com Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Nick Kew wrote: > > > It's sci.geo.meteorology, sir. One aspect of the science of > > ObPedant: it's a crosspost (I'm reading sci.geo.eos). But I agree > that the original post was entirely appropriate here too. > > Next issue: if governments fund development of [XYZ] - in this instance > JAVA visualisation software - it can make life hard for commercial > developers to compete in the same field (why pay for my product when > theirs is free, and backed by the public purse)? As a developer of > scientific visualisation software in JAVA, I could be tempted to see > public funding for someone elses software as unfair competition. > You raise valid points. Two points to consider in reply: 1. As freeware you *may* get what you pay for in terms of support, future upgrades, etc. Some people will want to go with a commercial supplier under the theory, at least, that these will be smaller problems. 2. Since the taxpayers paid for its development (presumably for some specific internal use, not just to be produced as a software package), why shouldn't they get to use it if possible? That's one of the great things about the WWW, IMO. Much of the stuff that taxpayers never used to have access to (in part because only a limited number wanted it so it was not fiscally feasible to make it available by traditional means, especially cheaply) can now be made available for no incremental cost to the taxpayer who already has a computer, ISP, etc. Granted that's not everyone, but in this case if they don't have a computer, why would they want a JAVA visualization package? :-) Just $0.02 worth. Regards, Russell Martin From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 31 09:11:55 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id JAA26252 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id JAA26247 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA31397 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:11:38 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id AAA29945 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id AAA30403 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:21:22 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id AAA20261; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:21:21 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:15:25 GMT From: coldrake at escape.ca (David Ball) Message-ID: Organization: MBnet Networking Inc. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!newshost.lanl.gov!awabi.library.ucla.edu!142.231.112.2!cyclone.bc.net!cyclone.mbnet.mb.ca!typhoon.mbnet.mb.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> <37CB4355.4AC0 at mail.wdn.com> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk One other point to consider is that if someone, whether it was done in government or outside of it, has gone to the trouble to create some visualization software, it may be because no-one in the private sector has stepped up to the plate to create something like it yet. No-one likes to reinvent the wheel - at least wise people don't - and for anyone to create something unnecessary is a real waste of time. Clearly, there was/is a need for this kind of thing. As far as the commercial software goes, I think many companies are seeing the writing on the wall. When IBM takes Data Explorer (DX), one of the slickest visualization packages around, and hands the source code over to the development community it tells me that something is going on... --- David Ball From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 31 12:01:54 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id MAA26463 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id MAA26458 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id MAA31911 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:01:22 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id LAA26425 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id LAA31879 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:37 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id LAA30430; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:36 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:50:31 +0000 From: nick at webthing.com (Nick Kew) Message-ID: <7ktgq7.dc.ln at jarl.webthing.com> Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hyperlens.demon.co.uk!jarl.webthing.com!nobody References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> <37CB4355.4AC0 at mail.wdn.com> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk >> Next issue: if governments fund development of [XYZ] - in this instance >> JAVA visualisation software - it can make life hard for commercial >> developers to compete in the same field (why pay for my product when >> theirs is free, and backed by the public purse)? As a developer of >> scientific visualisation software in JAVA, I could be tempted to see >> public funding for someone elses software as unfair competition. >> > > You raise valid points. Two points to consider in reply: > 1. As freeware you *may* get what you pay for in terms of support, > future upgrades, etc. Some people will want to go with a commercial > supplier under the theory, at least, that these will be smaller > problems. I think Linux's increasing 'mainstream' profile, together with the dreadful track record of many commercial companies, are increasingly demolishing that argument. It won't go away, but it will certainly change. > 2. Since the taxpayers paid for its development (presumably for some > specific internal use, not just to be produced as a software > package), why shouldn't they get to use it if possible? That's the US Govt view - others govts take the opposite view (make people pay for it, so in theory the taxpayer recoups some costs). The trouble with govt funding in either case is that most of it goes to whoever has the slickest pointy-haired weasel and maybe the best hospitality, rather than the best ideas and/or developers. -- Nick Kew From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 31 12:02:48 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id MAA26476 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id MAA26471 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id MAA31923 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:02:41 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id LAA26424 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id LAA31880 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:37 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id LAA30431; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:36 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:18:16 +0000 From: nick at webthing.com (Nick Kew) Message-ID: <87ogq7.08.ln at jarl.webthing.com> Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hyperlens.demon.co.uk!jarl.webthing.com!nobody References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> <37CB4355.4AC0 at mail.wdn.com> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk > One other point to consider is that if someone, whether it was done in > government or outside of it, has gone to the trouble to create some > visualization software, it may be because no-one in the private sector > has stepped up to the plate to create something like it yet. No-one > likes to reinvent the wheel - at least wise people don't - and for > anyone to create something unnecessary is a real waste of time. Me-too-ism? I should say the opposite is the case, as evidenced by - above all else - Microsoft, whose entire history is of buying or reinventing ideas at the point where their commercial value is demonstrated and growing rapidly, and marketing them. Governments are different, but with them the bottom line is (still) that the expertise required to secure govt. funding has absolutely nothing to do with the expertise required to carry a project through, and it seems rather unusual for the two to coincide (as evidenced by the track record of dismal failures in public-sector projects). Having said that, it looks from here as if the US govt has a better track record (with the make-it-free-to-the-public philosophy) than ours. > Clearly, there was/is a need for this kind of thing. > As far as the commercial software goes, I think many companies are > seeing the writing on the wall. When IBM takes Data Explorer (DX), one > of the slickest visualization packages around, and hands the source > code over to the development community it tells me that something is > going on... A big name vendor can market their product, whether or not it has anything to offer over someone else's. Smaller/unknown developers without sharp suits must offer somthing that's *visibly* unique. Publicly funded developments up the ante, and make non-funded innovation harder and riskier than in a free market. Some years ago, my own first attempt at such a product happened to coincide with the announcement of an EU-funded and marketed competitor. Despite serious problems with their system, I couldn't hope to compete. Basically it was an idea whose time had come, and some pointy-hair had convinced them to fund it. Once burned .. HyperLens avoids competing with the 'big boys' including WebWinds, by offering capabilities that are a good deal more novel. You would use it alongside - not instead of - your mainstream GIS, and image processing software. Now the difficulty is that people get budgets for mainstream GIS and image processing, not for something they've never heard of... As for IBM, they have moved heavily into consultancy and support (like offering commercial support for the free Apache webserver). I guess releasing their own product is part of the same strategy. -- Nick Kew From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Aug 31 14:47:00 1999 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) id OAA27808 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA27803 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA32435 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:46:37 -0400 Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (IDENT:root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/CV-SOL-3.0) with ESMTP id OAA26988 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id OAA32279 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:10:53 -0400 Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA01301; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:10:53 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:00:29 GMT From: elson at poboxes.com Message-ID: <7qh57m$7b$1 at nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail References: <37C2CE8E.E42A6EDD at magus.jpl.nasa.gov> <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> Subject: Re: Free visualization software Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.eos,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article , fl_aggie at thepentagon.com (I R A Darth Aggie) wrote: > On 29 Aug 1999 06:55:49 PDT, Spamfree , in > <7qbe55$91l at journal.concentric.net> wrote: > > + Beautiful. Yet more commercial spam. > > Really? I thought it was free. Am I mistaken? have you filed a complaint > regarding misuse of a government computer to post commercial ads? do you > know what you speak of? > > I'm sorry, but that wasn't spam by any known metric. > > + But then again - what would you expect from a government employee? > > He took time from his schedule to alert us to a free, meteorologically- > oriented visualization package. It is an on-topic post for this group. > > Remain calm. > > James > > -- > Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC > The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire > To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at: > > Just thought I'd make a couple of comments. This is a response to many of the posts, not just this one: 1) Our motivation is to make useful software for the scientific community and the public. Our sponsors believe that software developed with government funding should be provided at the lowest possible cost to the public. We are able to do it for free. 2) There are many areas where government and the commercial sector compete. Is government funding of social security unfair competition to private pension plans? I though government agencies were lumbering inefficient beasts. It ought to be easy for small startup companies to run circles around the government labs. 3)We also compete for funding in the (often irrational) shrinking world of government funding. In the commercial sector, customers vote with their dollars. In our world, people take our software and disappear. It is extremely difficult to convince our sponsors that we are perfoming a useful function since we don't often hear from people who have downloaded and used our software. If you visit our website, you'll see we are genuinely interested in user input, both positive and negative. -Just another anonymous software developer at a dotgov. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.