From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Wed Jun 3 08:57:31 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id IAA20509 for fitsbits-spinner; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id IAA20504 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id IAA25021 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id BAA16482 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id BAA24573 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA12444; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:37:23 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:19:59 GMT From: nospam.sullivan at wco.com (Phil Sullivan) Message-ID: <3574dc71.1476823 at news.wco.com> Organization: Verio Northern California's Usenet News Service Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Subject: header format Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Is there a quick reference available on the internet that describes the proper format for entering information in the FITS header? Please reply by email. Thanks, Philip Sullivan From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Wed Jun 3 08:57:31 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id IAA20533 for fitsbits-spinner; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id IAA20528 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id IAA25039 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id HAA20409 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id HAA24969 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29009; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:46:10 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:36:17 -0700 From: pang001 at netvigator.com Message-ID: <35760821.10B5 at netvigator.com> Organization: Netvigator Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.he.net!PRIORI!newsgate.netvigator.com!news.netvigator.com!usenet Reply-To: pang001 at netvigator.com Subject: FITS -> BMP Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I need a batch converter which may convert the image files of FITS format to the image files of BMP or JPG format. Where do I obtain this useful program ? Thank you very much. (FITS format - Flexible Image Transport System files used in Astronomy.) From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Wed Jun 3 10:31:23 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id KAA20757 for fitsbits-spinner; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA20750 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id KAA25277 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA20739 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palantir.cv.nrao.edu (tismail at palantir.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.254]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id KAA25265 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tismail at localhost) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19367 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:30:12 -0400 Received: from nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov(128.183.243.4) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma019357; Wed Jun 3 10:29:49 1998 Received: (from rwhite at localhost) by nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA17019 for fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:27:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard White Message-Id: <199806031427.KAA17019 at nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: header format- question from Philip Sullivan To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:27:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Philip Sullivan writes: > > Is there a quick reference available on the internet that describes > the proper format for entering information in the FITS header? Please > reply by email. > > Thanks, > > Philip Sullivan > > The FITS User's Guide is probably what you're looking for. See http://fits.gsfc.nasa.gov/documents.html#UGuide to bet an electronic copy. The FITS Support Office Home Page at http://fits.gsfc.nasa.gov/ contains and points to lots of other FITS information and resources. -- Richard A. White | richard.a.white.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center | (the .1 is absolutely necessary) Code 631,Astrophysics Data Facility | voice: (301) 286-7802 Greenbelt, MD 20771 | FAX: (301) 286-1771 | Building 26, Room 106C From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Thu Jun 4 09:31:39 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA09799 for fitsbits-spinner; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA09794 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id JAA27098 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA09784 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id JAA27077 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09613; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:25:23 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:15:39 -0400 From: "ANIL K. KOCHHAR" Message-ID: Organization: ARInternet, Corp. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!198.69.192.1!ari.ari.net!mtolympus.ari.net!anilk Subject: eon of file Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Since FITS is a "special" type of file. Is it possibble, when reading in data to do a "while (!EOF)", to read in all of the data (after the header info) in the file? Thanks From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Thu Jun 4 13:49:19 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id NAA12730 for fitsbits-spinner; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA12724 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id NAA27269 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA11734 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id KAA27175 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14354; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:58:45 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 4 Jun 1998 07:58:34 -0700 From: sla at ucolick.borg (Steve Allen) Message-ID: <6l6cmq$nr3$1 at dei.ucolick.org> Organization: UCO/Lick Observatory Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!agate!news.ucsc.edu!not-for-mail References: Subject: Re: eon of file Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article , ANIL K. KOCHHAR wrote: >Since FITS is a "special" type of file. Is it possibble, when reading in >data to do a "while (!EOF)", to read in all of the data (after the header >info) in the file? I have no idea what is meant by a "special" file, but I hack Unix where a tape drive, network interface, video display, etc. are all just files. A FITS file is a stream of bytes grouped into blocks of 2880. If you don't find the end of the 2880 block containing the END card in the header you don't know where the image begins. Multi-extension FITS files are becoming commonplace with the current generation of instruments, both ground-based and space-based. If you don't use the BITPIX and NAXIS(n) (and, potentially, the PCOUNT and GCOUNT) cards to count the number of blocks of image you don't know where the next FITS extension HDU begins. But perhaps the real question is why anyone would attempt to create a new application to read a FITS file using anything else than FITSIO? (Along those lines, how about a JAVA version of FITSIO ? :-) -- Steve Allen UCO/Lick Observatory Santa Cruz, CA 95064 sla at ucolick.borg Voice: +1 408 459 3046 FAX (don't): +1 408 454 9863 WWW: http://www.ucolick.borg/~sla PGP public keys: see WWW Junk mail is irrelevant -- my return address has been assimilated. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Thu Jun 4 14:28:29 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id OAA13272 for fitsbits-spinner; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id OAA13267 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id OAA27332 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id OAA13257 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palantir.cv.nrao.edu (tismail at palantir.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.254]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id OAA27304 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tismail at localhost) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07286 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:23:29 -0400 Received: from malama.jach.hawaii.edu(128.171.90.203) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma007283; Thu Jun 4 14:23:20 1998 Received: from lilikoi [128.171.90.227] (maren) by malama with smtp (Exim 1.81 #3) id 0yheYO-0003DR-00; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:15:56 -1000 Message-ID: <3576E45B.392 at jach.hawaii.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:15:55 -1000 From: Maren Purves Organization: Joint Astronomy Centre, Hilo, HI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ANIL K. KOCHHAR" CC: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: eon of file References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk ANIL K. KOCHHAR wrote: > Since FITS is a "special" type of file. Is it possibble, when reading in > data to do a "while (!EOF)", to read in all of the data (after the header > info) in the file? Some time ago I ran into a problem with a program doing something similar. While it doesn't seem to be a problem in itself if depends on your device driver. My problem at the time was with an Exabyte drive that only knew the one error message "Fatal drive error" - including for EOT (not EOF, as far as I remember), so on the last file (or on an empty tape) it would barf. Hope this helps any, Maren Purves From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Fri Jun 5 15:57:32 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA16271 for fitsbits-spinner; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA16266 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id PAA00483 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id OAA15046 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palantir.cv.nrao.edu (tismail at palantir.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.254]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id OAA28761 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tismail at localhost) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07098 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:07:48 -0400 Received: from postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu(128.174.5.11) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma007092; Fri Jun 5 14:07:40 1998 Received: from sirius.astro.uiuc.edu (sirius.astro.uiuc.edu [128.174.51.24]) by postoffice.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA54534 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:05:09 -0500 Received: from dr21.astro.uiuc.edu (lanie at dr21.astro.uiuc.edu [128.174.51.94]) by sirius.astro.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20160; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:05:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (lanie at localhost) by dr21.astro.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA19235; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:05:05 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: dr21.astro.uiuc.edu: lanie owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:05:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Helene Dickel To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu cc: Helene Dickel Subject: re OBJECT keyword Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Topic: re Draft of FITS standard revision 1.2.. Section 5.4.2.2 Keywords Describing Observations (OBJECT) and Section 5.2.1 Character String As Chair of the IAU Commmission 5 Task Group on Designations, I am writing in support of some of the recent suggestions regarding the FITS OBJECT key word - its length and its use. Briefly, the purpose of the IAU Task Group on Designations is to promote clear and unambiguous identification of astronomical objects outside the solar system. Much confusion exists with duplicate acronyms and shortened designations appearing in the literature which creates problems with archiving and retrieval of data. Improving the situation becomes all the more important as source names are searched in the Electronic Journals. The Task Group on Designations supports inclusion of Don Well's statement into Section 5.4.2.2 re OBJECT and that of Bill Pence into Section 5.2.1 re Character Strings (both statments attached) in the belief that these additions will facilitate rather than hinder the creation and use of unambiguous designations which these days can require more than 24 characters e.g. ("first" release Sloan Digital Sky Survey; Pre-registered to IAU Comm.5) 1SDSS JHHMMSS.ss+DDMMSS.s We are also in accord with several other submitted comments which I append. Thank you for your efforts and best wishes, Helene R. Dickel, Chair IAU TG on Designations ----------------------------------------------------------- From Don Wells April 17 1998 wrote that the text for 5.4.2.2 OBJECT should include the following statement (slightly modified by HRD): "It is recommended that data systems which originate OBJECT strings (e.g., telescope/instrument data systems) encourage observers to use strings which conform to the recommendations of the Designations Task Group of IAU Commission 5 (Astronomical Data) as given in "IAU Recommendations for Nomenclature" ." Bill Pence suggested on May 5 1998 adding a couple sentences to the end of section 5.2.1 (which defines character string keywords) to the effect: "The maximum allowed length of a keyword string is 68 characters (with the opening and closing quote characters in columns 11 and 80, respectively). Software which reads or writes any character string keyword should support strings up to this maximum length." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Other recommendations that the TG on Designation supports are: Steve Willner on May 5 1998 included the following in regards to allowed "characters" in the OBJECT key word strings: Also, be sure to allow the necessary special characters: colons and parentheses at least and preferably slashes and equal signs as well. Arnold Rots arots at xebec.harvard.edu (& William Pence and Nicolaas Kuin) wrote on May 11 1998: I agree that it is absolutely essential that the syntax of OBJECT be regulated to conform to the Commission 5 guidelines - or at least to something the name resolvers can be reasonably expected to handle. For AXAF, we have designated the keyword TITLE to contain the proposal title, but in principle it could be used for any kind of "junky" information, like suggested below, at the discretion of the project that generates the FITS files. William Pence wrote: > Nicolaas Kuin wrote: > > > There is no reason that Keck and Lick could not introduce their own > > LICK_OBJ for a string like > > LICK_OBJ = 'NGC 1234, 400 s, blue filter, 1200 line grating' > > which then could be put into the header. > > I'd agree that it would be better to invent a new keyword to record the > user's observation title, (OBSTITLE?) and reserve OBJECT for its > intended purpose, which is to give the name of the object observed and > nothing more. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sat Jun 6 23:21:28 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id XAA22993 for fitsbits-spinner; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id XAA22988 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id XAA01572 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id FAA22551 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id FAA01123 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA10429; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:02:57 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 6 Jun 1998 02:02:44 -0700 From: sla at ucolick.borg (Steve Allen) Message-ID: <6lb0jk$ha$1 at dei.ucolick.org> Organization: UCO/Lick Observatory Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!agate!news.ucsc.edu!not-for-mail References: Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article , Helene Dickel wrote: >The Task Group on Designations supports inclusion of Don Well's statement >into Section 5.4.2.2 re OBJECT Upon much reflection some of us here have come to the conclusion that the OBJECT keyword should not be forced into this application. The existing standard has required merely that OBJECT "shall contain a character string giving the name of the object observed". This has led to the development of user interfaces which allow a very broad interpretation of this keyword. At this time it is not feasible to modify the behavior of the user interfaces nor the astronomers such that the OBJECT keyword can comply with Don Wells' recommendation. Many FITS files are produced by real-time data acquisition systems at optical telescopes. The prescription of the IAU RN is best suited for archival purposes. The astronomers who are directing the observations and setting the value of the OBJECT keyword do not always have full-fledged IAU designations available before the shutter closes. Their attention is directed toward validation of the existing data and most efficient use of the remaining night time, not toward pedantic filling out of OBJECT names. Many FITS file browsing utilities, such as IRAF imhead, by default display the content of the OBJECT keyword when listing the content of a directory full of files. This has, unfortunately, led to an entrenched habit of using the OBJECT keyword as an online notepad to record other attributes of the observation for easy browsing at the time of data reduction. We cannot envision a user interface which can overcome the human factors involved in the setting of OBJECT values so as to conform reliably to the IAU Recommendations for Nomenclature (IAU RN). Instead we recommend the adoption of a new keyword, IAUDESIG, with a value explicitly specified as conforming to the IAU Recommendations for Nomenclature. This may be set by the astronomer at the time of data reduction, when the nature of the object is better known and there is no race with impending sunrise. -- Steve Allen UCO/Lick Observatory Santa Cruz, CA 95064 sla at ucolick.borg Voice: +1 408 459 3046 FAX (don't): +1 408 454 9863 WWW: http://www.ucolick.borg/~sla PGP public keys: see WWW Junk mail is irrelevant -- my return address has been assimilated. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 09:43:53 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA05431 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA05426 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:43:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id JAA02792 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA05223 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from palantir.cv.nrao.edu (tismail at palantir.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.254]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id JAA02749 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tismail at localhost) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10074 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:02:58 -0400 Received: from head-cfa.harvard.edu(131.142.41.8) by palantir.cv.nrao.edu via smap (V1.3) id sma010062; Mon Jun 8 09:02:50 1998 Received: from xebec by head-cfa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA21953; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:26 -0400 Received: by xebec (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA28419; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:25 -0400 From: arots at xebec.harvard.edu (Arnold Rots) Message-Id: <199806081255.IAA28419 at xebec> Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword In-Reply-To: <6lb0jk$ha$1 at dei.ucolick.org> from Steve Allen at "Jun 6, 98 02:02:44 am" To: sla at ucolick.borg (Steve Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Restraining myself from making inflammatory remarks (;-), let me just comment that while introduction of IAUDESIG might sound like a good solution to those who have abused the OBJECT keyword in the past, it also throws a monkeywrench into the designs of those who have traditionally tried to use OBJECT in the way Don Wells is suggesting. What I am saying is that the situation is not as simple as Steve presents it. He argues that tightening the definition of the existing keyword causes havoc in one part of the community and hence proposes a new keyword. I would argue that the introduction of a new keyword causes havoc in another part of the community. Sounds like we need to think this one through a little more carefully... - Arnold Steve Allen wrote: > In article , > Helene Dickel wrote: > >The Task Group on Designations supports inclusion of Don Well's statement > >into Section 5.4.2.2 re OBJECT > > Upon much reflection some of us here have come to the conclusion that > the OBJECT keyword should not be forced into this application. > > The existing standard has required merely that OBJECT "shall contain a > character string giving the name of the object observed". This has (Note that the definition says "the name of the object", not "some name-like description and a grab bag of unrelated items".) > led to the development of user interfaces which allow a very broad > interpretation of this keyword. At this time it is not feasible to > modify the behavior of the user interfaces nor the astronomers such > that the OBJECT keyword can comply with Don Wells' recommendation. > > Many FITS files are produced by real-time data acquisition systems at > optical telescopes. The prescription of the IAU RN is best suited for > archival purposes. The astronomers who are directing the observations > and setting the value of the OBJECT keyword do not always have > full-fledged IAU designations available before the shutter closes. > Their attention is directed toward validation of the existing data and > most efficient use of the remaining night time, not toward pedantic > filling out of OBJECT names. > > Many FITS file browsing utilities, such as IRAF imhead, by default > display the content of the OBJECT keyword when listing the content of > a directory full of files. This has, unfortunately, led to an > entrenched habit of using the OBJECT keyword as an online notepad to > record other attributes of the observation for easy browsing at the > time of data reduction. > > We cannot envision a user interface which can overcome the human > factors involved in the setting of OBJECT values so as to conform > reliably to the IAU Recommendations for Nomenclature (IAU RN). > > Instead we recommend the adoption of a new keyword, IAUDESIG, with a > value explicitly specified as conforming to the IAU Recommendations > for Nomenclature. This may be set by the astronomer at the time > of data reduction, when the nature of the object is better known > and there is no race with impending sunrise. > -- > Steve Allen UCO/Lick Observatory Santa Cruz, CA 95064 > sla at ucolick.borg Voice: +1 408 459 3046 FAX (don't): +1 408 454 9863 > WWW: http://www.ucolick.borg/~sla PGP public keys: see WWW > Junk mail is irrelevant -- my return address has been assimilated. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold H. Rots AXAF Science Center Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617 496 7701 60 Garden Street, MS 81 fax: +1 617 495 7356 Cambridge, MA 02138 arots at head-cfa.harvard.edu USA http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 09:43:53 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id JAA05424 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id JAA05419 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id JAA02787 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id IAA04994 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id IAA02710 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27423; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:16:29 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 8 Jun 1998 12:13:14 GMT From: mjc at star.rl.ac.uk (Malcolm Currie) Message-ID: <6lgkgq$vra at newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> Organization: UKATC Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!ral!rlsaxps.bnsc.rl.ac.uk!mjc References: Reply-To: mjc at star.rl.ac.uk Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article , Helene Dickel writes: To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu The use of the OBJECT keyword for IAU designations is laudable. However, I agree with Steve Allen, that in practice it is unlikely to work because of human nature. There is also the precedent of OBJECT being used for other information; this practice is going to be hard to change. Remember there are many astronomers still using B1950 co-ordinates and cgs units... Yes it is frustrating to have a multiplicity of names and abbreviations when you're searching an archive. Sometimes it is merely disorganisation, laziness, or ignorance of the observer; sometimes it is to maximise the data collected as Steve says; but also in some cases the obfuscation is deliberate. To expect that the IAU designation will be inserted by the astronomer during data reduction sounds highly optimistic to me, and it's not going to address the important problem of locating objects from telescope archives. Adding another keyword may not work in many control systems, where the data are archived immediately following the observation. The correct designation will rarely be entered after archival. Many archives are run on a shoestring and I doubt that there are the resources to edit the headers of most observations. IMHO the way ahead is education promulgated by the introduction of observation-preparation tools, such as that of the Gemini Project and space-based telescopes. These demand that the targets be specified _before_ observing commences, for example to avoid duplication. Support scientists and software designers have a role in ensuring that the target designations conform to IAU standards. Astronomers need to be assured that this is not some bureaucracy, and that it will actually benefit them and improve telescope efficiency. The full designation should not adversely impact on observing efficiency given graphical user interfaces and schedulers to select the next target. Indeed preparation before observing has been shown to markedly improve telescope efficiency. To summarise: I'd prefer to use keyword OBJECT, but from a pragmatic view I'd could live with keyword IAUDESIG. Let's get the correct designations online prior to observation. Malcolm Currie UKATC From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 10:29:50 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id KAA05565 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA05560 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id KAA02859 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id KAA05523 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id KAA02840 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00311; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:10:36 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:04:06 +0200 From: Lucio Chiappetti Message-ID: Organization: Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-ge.switch.ch!serra.unipi.it!newsserver.cilea.it!leonardo.area.mi.cnr.it!poseidon.ifctr.mi.cnr.it!lucio References: <6lgkgq$vra at newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk On 8 Jun 1998, Malcolm Currie wrote: > Helene Dickel writes: > Yes it is frustrating to have a multiplicity of names and > abbreviations when you're searching an archive. Sometimes it is True, but usually one accesses an archive via some name resolver (like SIMBAD or NED, which resolve the name to a pair of coordinates and locate all objects close to it). > designation will rarely be entered after archival. Many archives are > run on a shoestring and I doubt that there are the resources to edit > the headers of most observations. human resources or computer/software resources ? :-( A keyword is 68 bytes in an 80-byte card image, thus there is always SPARE SPACE to edit it afterwards IN PLACE (no need of rewriting data) (e.g. when data go into the archive, when the archive goes public, when data are written to a permanent medium like a CD). No problem with h/w or s/w. So in principle the observer can use whatever name or nickname, and the correct name can be inserted later while archiving. But ... > IMHO the way ahead is education promulgated by the introduction of > observation-preparation tools, such as that of the Gemini Project and > space-based telescopes. These demand that the targets be specified > _before_ observing commences, for example to avoid duplication. I'm quite used to satellite observation scheduling (being essentially an X-ray astronomer), but that's not going to solve the problem (one proposal PI will always be typing "Mkn501" and another one "1652+398", and none place any catalogue designator in front), but often mission planning teams are no more staffed than archival teams, so either they run a name resolver while checking the proposals, or the problem will stay the same. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lucio Chiappetti - IFCTR/CNR - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.ifctr.mi.cnr.it/~lucio/personal.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 13:58:30 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id NAA06196 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA06191 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id NAA03129 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA06058 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id NAA03099 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10215; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:34:09 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 8 Jun 1998 17:25:52 GMT From: valdes at tucana.tuc.noao.edu (Frank Valdes) Message-ID: <6lh6r1$3eq$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu> Organization: IRAF Project, National Optical Astronomy Observatories Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.52.106.6!ncar!noao!not-for-mail References: <199806081255.IAA28419 at xebec> Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I am also in agreement with Steve Allen that the OBJECT keyword has a long history of use by astronomers and acquisition systems as a human entered label for the data. As he noted, this label is also used by many analysis systems for short, one-line, listings of a collection of data where it is desired by the observer to get the most information in one line. Thus including exposure time, filters, coordinates, personal finder desginations, etc is common practice. I don't think the original OBJECT keyword was abused but that the original minimal set of recommend keywords was (appropriately) limited though, unfortunately, there was nothing defined for an observation label. So it is only natural that people used this keyword in preference to the worse solution of new keywords which other software would not even see. It is actually a tribute that many diverse software systems label displays, graphs, listings, etc reasonably (without great user outcry) using information in the OBJECT keyword from many diverse sources. In recognition of this the NOAO FITS keyword dictionary has defined the OBJECT keyword as the observation label and new keywords for the archival name following the IAU naming standards. While it may be some time before NOAO data taking systems actually make use of this, the proposed names in our dictionary are OBJNAME/OBJnnnnn (where the latter is when there are multiple objects in the observation such as with MOS systems). For an archive there are also some other things which would be good to define. In particular OBJTYPE/OBJTnnnn which give some standard object type such as star, galaxy, etc. The dictionary is still a design document which is quite thorough in trying to define useful information for ground-based optical astronomical data. Returning to the question of what happens at the telescope (for the traditional ground-based scenerio) the acquisition system asks the observer for a label for the observation. It is important to minimize how much is required for the user to enter so a single line is typical. This information is added to the data and is generally mapped to the FITS "standard" in the OBJECT keyword. This is so entrenched and any changes to the meaning of OBJECT will not affect past data that I don't think it should be changed. What should happen (in new systems) is that the software systems should take the OBJECT keyword, coordinates, telescope caches, etc and use name resolvers to automatically create an archival keyword, such as OBJNAME. The user could be asked to confirm this which is an easier requirement during observing than to require a standardized entry. Of course, archival ingestion systems can also do this. I don't think the concern of Arnold Rots is a serious problem. Any software can use a precedence and fallback scheme. The NOAO dictionary uses this. An archive system that needs to produce a designation can look for the more precise keyword, say OBJNAME or IAUDESIG, and if it does not find it falls back to OBJECT. There are many ways to address this concern: education, name resolvers, new FITS standards, queue and proposal entry systems, new systems at new telescopes, smart archives. All of these will occur. But if people are anxious to do something now that current systems under development might take into account, then adopting a new keyword is the approach I would advocate as opposed to trying to change/tighten the original OBJECT keyword usage. Frank Valdes NOAO/IRAF Group From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 15:47:37 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA08871 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA08866 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id PAA03249 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA08475 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id PAA03232 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16618; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:34:24 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 8 Jun 1998 12:34:13 -0700 From: sla at ucolick.borg (Steve Allen) Message-ID: <6lhebl$3a3$1 at dei.ucolick.org> Organization: UCO/Lick Observatory Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!agate!news.ucsc.edu!not-for-mail References: <199806081255.IAA28419 at xebec> <6lh6r1$3eq$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu> Subject: FITS keyword dictionaries Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk In article <6lh6r1$3eq$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu>, Frank Valdes wrote: >In recognition of this the NOAO FITS keyword dictionary has defined the >OBJECT keyword as the observation label and new keywords for the archival >name following the IAU naming standards. In tangent to the OBJECT keyword discussion, I'll take this space to laud the NOAO FITS keyword dictionary as an impressive work. UCO/Lick also has a keyword dictionary with somewhat different format and goals. One goal is documentation of the syntax and semantics of all keywords used throughout the history of Lick data acquisition systems. This is absolutely essential for archival applications. It is availble online via WWW: http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/fits/ -- Steve Allen UCO/Lick Observatory Santa Cruz, CA 95064 sla at ucolick.borg Voice: +1 408 459 3046 FAX (don't): +1 408 454 9863 WWW: http://www.ucolick.borg/~sla PGP public keys: see WWW Junk mail is irrelevant -- my return address has been assimilated. From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Mon Jun 8 20:34:47 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id UAA12924 for fitsbits-spinner; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 20:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id UAA12919 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 20:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id UAA03505 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 20:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id TAA12730 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id TAA03439 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29512; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:21:50 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 8 Jun 1998 23:19:41 GMT From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman) Message-ID: <6lhrid$cqk$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu> Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!noao.edu!seaman References: <199806081255.IAA28419 at xebec> <6lh6r1$3eq$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu> Subject: Re: re OBJECT keyword Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I agree with the group that argues for a new keyword (or keywords) to contain an official IAU designation for an object. The OBJECT keyword was never defined to contain only official names, and no attempt has ever been made by large segments of the community to enforce any particular naming policy. It seems more than a little late to start now. However, I also agree that the data acquisition systems should ideally be responsible for creating the OBJNAME or IAUDESIG keywords (preferably only one or the other, not both). Unfortunately, I doubt that I'm the only one who can comment from experience on the unlikelihood of this happening for legacy instrumentation. Note that not all observations are associated with a particular IAU designated object. Does the Hubble Deep Field have an official name? The DSS fields will have no IAUDESIG, for instance. It would be impossible to assign a OBJNAME to a "serendipity mode" observation at some random telescope pointing. What about names for individual exposures from whole-sky or other telescope surveys? The precise intent of a survey is to provide fodder for only later generating names, after all. Note also that the IAU may not be the sole body that we need to consider as being responsible for granting names. Do we need to reserve other xxxDESIG keywords? (Might I suggest that a shorter abbreviation be found for "designation" so that more than three characters remain for the naming organization acronym?) Alternately, is OBJNAME appropriate for other than official IAU nomenclature? Without reserving multiple keywords to allow keeping multiple namespaces separate, a single keyword may not be able to resolve naming conflicts. Is an ambiguous official name better than an unambiguous ad hoc name? I'm also leary of relying entirely on positional identifications for resolving names. In crowded fields it is quite possible for the boresight of the telescope to lie nearer to a happenstance object than to the intended object. On the other hand, an observation of, say, halo objects of a nearby galaxy may result in a telescope pointing that is far from the official center of the galaxy...while narrow band observations of distant objects may use red shifted filters such that otherwise centered foreground objects aren't really present in the field of view in any appropriate scientific sense. (I'm sure others can come up with even more convincing examples.) In general, assigning a single object name (an official IAU name or otherwise) to each observation of a particular field-of-view relies intrinsically on the intent of the observer. And searching an archive for all observations of NGC1234 (or is that ngc-1234?) is only one desirable type of database query. What about observations containing multiple objects? What about observations of specific regions of larger objects? I may want to search not only for observations of Jupiter, but specifically for observations of the Jovian Great Red Spot. Is our software to be responsible for determining not only whether the GRS is in the field-of-view, but also whether it is on the proper side of the planet? I presume the IAU has a lot to say about languages - but does FITS have any specific requirements about the language used to specify a name? Abbreviations? Is case significant? ... The nature of the problem has not been sufficiently well defined yet. We shouldn't hurry to a solution until it is. Rob Seaman -- seaman at noao.edu, http://iraf.noao.edu/~seaman NOAO, 950 N Cherry Ave, Tucson AZ 85719, 520-318-8248 PGP: 98 8D 8B 49 74 9A 41 88 3A 43 87 54 51 BF 30 4B From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Tue Jun 9 16:01:46 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id PAA24434 for fitsbits-spinner; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA24429 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id PAA04788 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id PAA24419 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id PAA04778 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25863; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:57:58 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 9 Jun 1998 19:32:21 GMT From: eros at ala2.lamel.bo.cnr.it (Eros Albertazzi) Message-ID: <6lk2k5$rk3 at sirio.cineca.it> Organization: Cineca Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newsfeed.nettuno.it!sirio.cineca.it!ala2.lamel.bo.cnr.it!eros Subject: netCDF -> FITS Newsgroups: sci.data.formats,sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I would like to try to view data stored in netCDF format with some software which read FITS format, are there any program which does such conversion? At least for 2D var. Thanks -- Eros Albertazzi CNR-LAMEL, Via P.Gobetti 101, 40129 Bologna, Italy Tel: +39 - 51 - 639 9152 Fax: +39 - 51 - 639 9216 E-mail: eros at lamel.bo.cnr.it From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sat Jun 13 03:15:16 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id DAA14740 for fitsbits-spinner; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id DAA14735 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id DAA08580 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id NAA10107 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id NAA07998 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA07026; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:02:14 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: 12 Jun 1998 16:55:28 GMT From: valdes at tucana.tuc.noao.edu (Frank Valdes) Message-ID: <6lrmi0$otc$1 at noao.tuc.noao.edu> Organization: IRAF Project, National Optical Astronomy Observatories Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!not-for-mail References: Subject: Re: WCS for long-slit spectroscopy Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits,adass.fits.oirfits,adass.iraf.system Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk > Malcolm J. Currie writes in sci.astro.fits: > > Defining keywords is not straightforward with spectroscopic data, > especially long-slit spectroscopy. (For those not familiar with the > problem, long-slit datasets have sky co-ordinates at each slit position > in addition to the x-y pixels of the two-dimensional detector/data > array.) For a single spectrum I could add dummy third and fourth > dimensions which specify the sky co-ordinates for that spectrum. > However, I'm uncertain what is the best approach (i.e. one that many > FITS readers would be able to interpret) for long-slit data. Therefore > I'd like to know please what schemes other people have devised or > recommend for such data. I am not aware of any common solution and certainly not a standard. The IRAF WCS is capable of representing this situation. I am not advocating this but it is grounds for discussion. The IRAF WCS includes a concept of axes mapping. Basically this is a keyword that maps the existing raster axes to a higher order set of axes in a higher order WCS. This allows a single column or line stored as a 1D image to still support the coupled RA/DEC systems for celestial coordinates. So in the long slit case the higher order WCS would be three dimensional with two axes for the coupled spatial part and one for the dispersion. To be simple the dispersion axis would match the image raster dispersion axis and if the slit was predominately along RA that raster axis would map to the RA-TAN (or whatever) axis. The third axis would then be the subordinate spatial axis. The axis mapping keyword (WAXMAP01 in IRAF) would then map away the missing axis. Currently there is no raw or reduced data in IRAF that has this information but logically that is how it would be done. Rather than axis mapping one could use a dummy axis. The problem with dummy axes and data analysis software, speaking for IRAF software mainly, is that in this case the software would see NAXIS=3 and many applications will simply say that they are intended only for 2D data and quit. Of course the software could have a "kludge" that notes that an axis length is one and assume the image is really of a lower dimensionality but this is not always the case. In IRAF an IMCOPY to reduce the dimensionality and remove the dummy axis would automatically set up the axis mapping described above. Frank Valdes NOAO/IRAF Group From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Sat Jun 13 03:15:16 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id DAA14732 for fitsbits-spinner; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id DAA14727 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id DAA08575 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id LAA09969 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id LAA07935 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01033; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:13:59 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:12:41 +0100 From: "Malcolm J. Currie" Message-ID: Organization: Edinburgh University Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!radio.roe.ac.uk!mjc Subject: WCS for long-slit spectroscopy Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk Since ADASS the WCS debate has gone quiet on this newsgroup. Dare one ask what is the current state of play with the draft standard? I'm trying to define sets FITS headers to specify the WCS for both imaging and spectroscopic detectors at UKIRT. Since there is no WCS standard yet, I've adopted the widely used AIPS tangent plane for imaging, with non-zero CROTAn to allow for a small detector orientation with respect to cardinal points. Defining keywords is not straightforward with spectroscopic data, especially long-slit spectroscopy. (For those not familiar with the problem, long-slit datasets have sky co-ordinates at each slit position in addition to the x-y pixels of the two-dimensional detector/data array.) For a single spectrum I could add dummy third and fourth dimensions which specify the sky co-ordinates for that spectrum. However, I'm uncertain what is the best approach (i.e. one that many FITS readers would be able to interpret) for long-slit data. Therefore I'd like to know please what schemes other people have devised or recommend for such data. Thanks, Malcolm Currie UKATC From owner-fitsbits at kochab.cv.nrao.edu Fri Jun 26 17:45:07 1998 Received: (from majordom at localhost) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) id RAA28878 for fitsbits-spinner; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (dwells at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id RAA28873 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dwells at localhost) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) id RAA23266 for fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fits.cv.nrao.edu (root at fits.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.8]) by kochab.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/CV-2.2) with ESMTP id QAA28838 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.17]) by fits.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/CV-2.3) with ESMTP id QAA23152 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from news at localhost) by newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24592; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:13:26 -0400 To: fitsbits at fits.cv.nrao.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:59:36 -0400 From: "ANIL K. KOCHHAR" Message-ID: Organization: ARInternet, Corp. Path: newsfeed.cv.nrao.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!198.69.192.1!ari.ari.net!mtolympus.ari.net!anilk Subject: fits file Newsgroups: sci.astro.fits Sender: owner-fitsbits at majordomo.cv.nrao.edu Precedence: bulk I would like to read in data from a fits file into a 2-Dimensional array. HOw does one do a while(!EOF) {...} to read in all the data instead of using a nested for loop? Thanks