From russ@unidata.ucar.edu Thu Jan  5 13:25:25 1995
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From: russ@unidata.ucar.edu (Russ Rew)
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: Re: two questions concerning NetCDF
Date: 05 Jan 1995 17:38:51 GMT
Organization: UCAR Unidata Program
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <RUSS.95Jan5103851@buddy.unidata.ucar.edu>
References: <1995Jan4.144111.13433@ircam.fr>
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In-reply-to: eckel@ircam.fr's message of Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:41:11 GMT

In article <1995Jan4.144111.13433@ircam.fr> eckel@ircam.fr (Gerhard Eckel) writes:

> We are in the process of evaluating netCDF. Our institute is specialized
> in musical applications and our main usage of netCDF would be storage and
> retreival of sound signal analysis data and sound synthesis control
> data. We are currently using home-brew formats. Compared to our own
> formats we found two problems with netCDF:
> 
> 1) We used to pass data over UNIX pipes from one program to another to
>    avoid writing intermediate data files. As far as we can see up to now
>    netCDF doesn't support this type of data exchange (stream oriented
>    rather than file oriented).  What are the reasons for this apparent
>    limitation? Will there be extensions of netCDF which will allow for
>    this feature? Could we add this extension ourselves and make it
>    available to UNIDATA such that it will be supported in the future?

The inability to use a "pipes and filters" approach directly with netCDF was
intentional to get the corresponding benefits of an engineering trade-off
between direct access and sequential access.  Direct access permits
efficient access to a small subset of a large dataset without reading
through all the preceding data.  Sequential access permits simple connection
via pipes, but is inefficient for accessing small amounts of data from a
large file.

A feature of the first release of the netCDF operators we developed is that
they can read an input netCDF data set from standard input and can also
write an output netCDF data set to standard output.  Thus, these operators
can be used in UNIX pipelines (although this is only recommended for small
data sets).  This was implemented on input by copying standard input to a
temporary file and opening it as a netCDF file, and similarly on output by
copying a temporary output file to standard output.  A similar approach can
be used with any program that deals with netCDF data, providing the
advantages of direct access when file names are provided for input or
output, but using standard input or output via transparent copying
otherwise.

> 2) We use variable record sizes for many of our analyses data. A maximum
>    record size is hard to estimate before the analysis is started and the
>    record size cannot be changed efficiently during the analysis
>    process. A maximum record size can also waste much disk space. Do other
>    people have this problem with netCDF? Are there work-arounds?

NetCDF only permits one unlimited dimension, so if this is used as the
"record" dimension, you can't have variable record sizes.  The reason for
this limitation is again an engineering trade-off, to provide efficient
access to cross-sections of data.  We know of no implementation that permits
multiple unlimited dimensions, efficient access to orthogonal cross-sections
of data, and the ability to later append data along any of the unlimited
dimensions.

We have investigated ways to remove the restriction on a single unlimited
dimension, but these appear to require adding other new restrictions to
netCDF data access.  For example, by restricting the writing of
multidimensional arrays to occur in the same order as they are stored,
rather than in arbitrary order as is now allowed, multiple unlimited
dimensions might be (weakly) supported.  Another approach requires garbage
collection, to recover unused locations so that a file doesn't grow
quadratically in size as a single vector is extended linearly along an
unlimited dimension.

A workaround when you need multiple unlimited dimensions in a single file is
to use multiple files with separate unlimited dimensions in each, but this
only works if no single variable uses more than one of the desired unlimited
dimensions.

> Gerhard Eckel
> IRCAM, Centre Georges Pompidou
> 1, place Igor Stravinksy
> F-75004 Paris / France
> eckel@ircam.fr


From stern@amath.washington.edu (L.G.Stern) Mon Jan  9 16:02:23 1995
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stern
From: stern@amath.washington.edu (L.G. "Ted" Stern)
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: [SUMMARY] FEM stuff
Date: 09 Jan 1995 19:47:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Applied Math Dept.
Lines: 42
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <STERN.95Jan9114707@omak.amath.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: omak.amath.washington.edu


I posted a message a few weeks ago asking for information about data formats
that would be suitable for FEM-type info and materials databases.  I looked
around a bit more, got some replies, and here is a summary:

1) IBM has a tool called Data Explorer (DX) with a published format that
supports a lot of what I was looking for.  DX also has Lloyd Treinish working
on it (see the CDF, netCDF, and HDF bibliographies).  Unfortunately, there is
not yet complete implementation of Treinish's and DX's formats in a PD
package, though HDF supports some of the features.  Here are some DX URL's:

	http://www-i.almaden.ibm.com/dx/
	http://www.tc.cornell.edu/Visualization/vis.html

2) HDF suppports some unstructured formats.  Disadvantage (to me) is that I
haven't seen sufficient programming examples for C or Fortran.  I would very
much appreciate seeing some HDF examples supporting data on unstructured
grids, in C, C++, or Fortran (hopefully all 3).  I'd also like to see how
people get their data into AVS or PV-WAVE (the local vis. tools I have to work
with).

3) netCDF can theoretically be pushed into supporting unstructured grids with
home-brewed constructs.  Lloyd Treinish sent me a document about how DX
handles this.  I will forward it to anyone who's interested.  I would also be
interested in seeing how other people do this.

4) For materials databases I was referred to STEP.  Here are some URL's:

	gopher://elib.cme.nist.gov/11/step
	gopher://elib.cme.nist.gov/11/step/part104
	gopher://elib.cme.nist.gov/11/step/part45
	http://www.igd.fhg.de/www/igd-a2/hyperstep/hyperstep-home.html

Hope this helps somebody,

--
	-- Ted
 ============================================================================
 Ted Stern (206) 685-8068                        Dept. of Applied Math, FS-20
 stern@amath.washington.edu                      University of Washington
 http://www.amath.washington.edu/~stern/         Seattle, WA  98195
 ============================================================================

From dilg@fishery.hitc.com Tue Jan 10 17:53:47 1995
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!newsroom.gsfc.nasa.gov!fishery.hitc.com!dilg
From: dilg@fishery.hitc.com ()
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: Re: What is the best neutral format for CFD data
Date: 10 Jan 1995 16:20:11 GMT
Organization: Applied Reseach Corporation
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3euc3r$l2c@newsroom.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <3eta89$4u0@agate.berkeley.edu>
Reply-To: dbuto@eos.hitc.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: fishery.hitc.com

In article <3eta89$4u0@agate.berkeley.edu>, faustus@remarque.berkeley.edu (Wayne A. Christopher) writes:
|> I need to define an input data format for some CFD visualization
|> software, which should have all the usual good properties: flexible,
|> extensible, efficient, lots of conversion tools available, etc.
|> I need to be able to store both structured and unstructured result
|> data in this format, and it should be easy to write converters
|> from other formats whenever they don't already exist.  Some people
|> in sci.physics.computational.fluid-dynamics suggested either HDF
|> or netCDF, neither of which I know anything about.  Any opinions
|> or other ideas?  Thanks,

There is a package from NCSA called UIFlow which, as I recall, helps you
to set up CFD structures using HDF (through the BRICK library, also from
NCSA).  I don't know a lot about these tools, but you should be able to
get more information from Kim Stephenson (kims@ncsa.uiuc.edu) or Ping Fu
(pfu@ncsa.uiuc.edu).  The software should be available on NCSA's anonymous
ftp server ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu

After you have your results, PolyView (again, NCSA) is an excellent display
tool for Silicon Graphics' machines.  I think it would do nicely for CFD
results.

		-Doug Ilg

From yves@cih.hcuge.ch Thu Jan 19 10:31:43 1995
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!fdn.fr!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!news.unige.ch!usenet
From: Yves LIGIER <yves@cih.hcuge.ch>
Subject: PAPYRUS file format
Message-ID: <1995Jan19.083456.5764@news.unige.ch>
Sender: usenet@news.unige.ch
Organization: University of Geneva
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:34:56 GMT
Lines: 73


  The Digital Imaging Unit (UIN : Unite d'Imagerie Numerique) of
  the University Hospital of Geneva is pleased to announce 
  the new releases of :

     - the OSIRIS software for medical image display & processing
     - the PAPYRUS file format based on DICOM (specification + toolkit).

  and a new WWW Medical Imaging home page.
            http://expasy.hcuge.ch/www/UIN/UIN.html
    

OSIRIS DESCRIPTION

  OSIRIS is a software package for the display and manipulation of 
  multimodality medical images. It was developed as part of a 
  hospital-wide Picture Archiving and Communication System (PACS) 
  at the University Hospital of Geneva (Switzerland).
  OSIRIS provides (just a few characteristics):
       - Interactive graphic user interface
       - Customizable display modes for images sets
       - Zoom, rotation, flipping of image sets
       - Color adjustment on full dynamic range
       - Magnifying glass
       - Annotations
       - Regions of interest (polygons, ...)
       - Measurements (distance, angle, surface, volume, ...)
       - Filters
       - Multiplanar sections of tomographic images
       - Region growing for automatic image segmentation
       - Histogram equalization
  
  OSIRIS is available for different platforms :
       - Macintosh
       - Unix / X11 / OSF-Motif
       - PC / Windows3.1
 
  OSIRIS is a non commercial software distributed free of charge.
  Users interested in developing their own specific tools can
  obtain the full source code (developer license). 

PAPYRUS DESCRIPTION

  PAPYRUS is an image file format based on the ACR/NEMA standard.
  The last release (version 3.0) is based on the latest DICOM 3.0 standard.
  The specification are public domain as well as the toolkit
  which allows to easily read and write PAPYRUS image files.

ANONYMOUS FTP

  OSIRIS is available on the following  anonymous FTP server : 
  Just log in as anonymous and put your email address in the password field.

           expasy.hcuge.ch   in the directory : /pub/Osiris
           ftp://expasy.hcuge.ch/pub/Osiris


WWW

  More information is also available on the following WWW site

              http://expasy.hcuge.ch/www/UIN/UIN.html


For more information, do not hesitate to contact us :

               Dr. Yves LIGIER, Dr. Osman RATIB
               Digital Imaging Unit
               University Hospital of Geneva
               1211 GENEVA 14 - Switzerland
                Fax : + 41 22 372 61 98
                email : yves@cih.hcuge.ch


From jhoward@solar.sky.net Sun Jan 22 01:49:11 1995
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!solar.sky.net!solar.sky.net!not-for-mail
From: jhoward@solar.sky.net (John Howard)
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: Re: Rich Text Format
Date: 21 Jan 1995 03:20:24 -0600
Organization: SkyNET Corporation
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3fqjko$erg@solar.sky.net>
References: <790334401snz@denning.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.sky.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Paul Denning (Paul@denning.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Can anybody point me in the direction of some information on the Rich Text
: Format. I'm particularly interested in the graphic formats that Rich Text
: supports.

primate.wisc.edu:pub/RTF
ftp://ftp.cray.com/src/WWWstuff/RTF

From dwells@nrao.edu Fri Jan 27 16:33:58 1995
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!news.cv.nrao.edu!dwells
From: dwells@nrao.edu (Don Wells)
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: Re: Importing Formatted Data to C++ or OODB Classes?
Date: 27 Jan 1995 20:05:53 GMT
Organization: nrao
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <DWELLS.95Jan27150553@fits.cv.nrao.edu>
References: <3g1e9o$2dt@reuter.cse.ogi.edu> <PHIL.95Jan26111330@coot.geog.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fits.cv.nrao.edu
In-reply-to: phil@coot.geog.ubc.ca's message of 26 Jan 1995 19:13:30 GMT

"PA" == Phil Austin <phil@coot.geog.ubc.ca> writes:
PA> In article <3g1e9o$2dt@reuter.cse.ogi.edu>
    benning@coho.cse.ogi.edu (Paul Benninghoff) writes: 
    >> Is anyone out there aware of any work that attempts to translate
    >> Structured File Data (i.e. from CDF, HDF, ASN.1, or any of the formats
    >> of interest to this news group) to C++, Smalltalk or Other OOPL
    >> classes or to database schema? ...

A FITS-to-C++ package has been constructed by Allen Farris (Space
Telescope Science Institute) for the AIPS++ project; it is available at:

    ftp://fits.cv.nrao.edu/src/c++fits-04.058.{news,tar.gz}
--
  Donald C. Wells         Associate Scientist         dwells@nrao.edu
                    http://fits.cv.nrao.edu/~dwells
  National Radio Astronomy Observatory                +1-804-296-0277
  520 Edgemont Road,   Charlottesville, Virginia       22903-2475 USA

From dilg@fishery.hitc.com Fri Jan 27 16:34:12 1995
Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!hookup!ames!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!newsroom.gsfc.nasa.gov!fishery.hitc.com!dilg
From: dilg@fishery.hitc.com ()
Newsgroups: sci.data.formats
Subject: Re: IEEE32bit format help
Date: 23 Jan 1995 20:06:28 GMT
Organization: Applied Reseach Corporation
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3g1284$dm6@newsroom.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <1995Jan21.140057.1@usthk.ust.hk>
Reply-To: dbuto@eos.hitc.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: fishery.hitc.com

In article <1995Jan21.140057.1@usthk.ust.hk>, mecks@usthk.ust.hk writes:
|> Dear friend.
|> 
|> 	I am working in mechanical field . I have some file
|> in IEEE32 bit format . Can anyone told me where I can find those
|> standard manuals . I means in what CD file , journal , manuals .

I'm certain that you can get the official standard direct from IEEE, but
I doubt you really need to go that far.  Most workstations that I know of,
as well as lots of other machines, use IEEE as their native format.  Notable
exceptions are IBM mainframes (and clones), VAXen and older DEC machines,
and some "supercomputers."  If you use a native IEEE machine, then your
only concern is byte ordering (big- versus little-endian).  You can usually
tell if you've got the wrong byte order; especially if you have even a
vague idea of what sort of data you're looking at.  When you turn the bytes
around, you're likely get absolute garbage.

My advice:
Try reading each number in as a regular binary floating point value (I
assume you're talking about floating point) and writing it out with a
normal formatted write.  If the data looks completely useless, try reading
them in normally, exchanging the bytes so that they are in reverse order,
and writing them out with the same write statement you used before.

If neither of these methods works, then you are not using a native IEEE
machine and you'll have to find another way to get around this.  Maybe custom
conversion code.

What kind of machine are you using?  And by the way, where is ust.hk?

			-Doug Ilg

