From rudnyi@mch1.chem.msu.su Wed Jan 24 11:27:26 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.dfn.de!Radio-MSU.net!Gamma.RU!srcc!newsserver From: Evgenii Borisovich Rudnyi Message-ID: <199601231237.PAA01532@mch1.chem.msu.su> Subject: Re: Data Exchange in HTML Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:37:35 +0300 (GMT+0300) Newsgroups: sci.data.formats X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2379 Sender: news-service@srcc.msu.su X-Return-Path: gamma!gw!mch1.chem.msu.su!rudnyi Lines: 33 Note that HTML is just a Document Type Definition in Standard Generilized Markup Languige. Some references on SGML are below. I am thinking on applying SGML for the thermodynamics data but I am only at the starting point now. Sincerely, Evgenii Rudnyi *********************************************************************** Chemistry Department rudnyi@comp.chem.msu.su rudnyi@mch.chem.msu.su Moscow State University http://www.chem.msu.su/people/rudnyi/welcome.html 119899 Moscow +(095)939 5452, fax+(095)932 8846, +(095)939 1205 Russia ************************************************************************

sgml

All About ArborText
An Introduction to SGML
The SGML Guide
The Whirlwind Guide to SGML Tools
The SGML Implementation Guide Home Page
SGML: Overview and General
A Short SGML Glossary
Guide to Magellan Image Interpretation
JEP
SGML PRIMER: Introduction
SGML Bibliography
SGML Open Home Page
Davenport Group Archive

From gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca Wed Jan 24 14:01:32 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!hermes.dciem.dnd.ca!mozart.dciem.dnd.ca!not-for-mail From: gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca (Thomas Gee) Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,sci.data.formats Subject: Re: Data Exchange in HTML Date: 23 Jan 1996 17:13:40 -0500 Organization: Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine Lines: 78 Sender: gee@dciem.dnd.ca (Tom Gee) Message-ID: <4e3mik$dvb@mozart.dciem.dnd.ca> References: <1996Jan22.173606.11312@newshub.ists.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mozart.dciem.dnd.ca Xref: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:44531 sci.data.formats:1340 In article <1996Jan22.173606.11312@newshub.ists.ca>, Ed Carty wrote: > >Does anyone have any experience (or ideas) about implementing data exchange >in HTML? While this could apply to any spreadsheet-like data, I'm currently >more interested in scientific collection data submission and publication. Well, you seem to have some good ones. Why don't we start with your suggestions and move out from there? Here at DCIEM, like in many (all?) research institutes, the bookkeeping task of keeping track of your data is rapidly becoming more of a challenge than the research itself. So any method that might address this issue is welcome. I've just started keeping onlines copies of our papers and asset databases via the Web, and it's proving very useful. So I like the thought of extending this ability. >I'm assuming that the data can be organized in tabular fashion (2-dimensions), >mostly because it will usually end up in database tables anyhow, but I suppose >it could be extended to 3-or-more dimensions and maybe a self-describing >approach like netCDF or HDF, or even include referential cell formulas like >spreadsheets... (yikes!). This is where life becomes awkward. Mosaic claims to have builtin support for HDF files, but either I've got the wrong version or something is misconfigured, because I can't seem to get it to work. I've found very little documentation from the NCSA that even mentions HDF support, much less describes how it works. However, if we can get it working well, this would be a good way to provide access to large or complex data structures. I like the spreadsheet idea for more refined and less bulky data, though. I think the 2D table should be quite adequate for 70-80% of our data representation. >Say I wanted to exchange database table data using HTML syntax (and say I >wanted to keep it simple so other people wouldn't mind supporting it) would >it be a good idea to; > > 1) Use standard HTML (v3); ... > > 2) Implement some proprietary tags and render data in a simple > spreadsheet-ready format (like comma-separated-values). > ... > > 3) Other designs? > Well, I think we can have both. I like the idea of using standard HTML so that people can browse through the data quickly and see if the information they need is available, but you're correct that the syntax is more complex than most spreadsheet programs are able to handel. I think the best answer is to store the data in the lowest common denominator, with single character delimiters, and convert this to HTML for browsing. I've written a very short, Perl-based CGI program to test this idea. It allows you to define simply a title for the table and the filename containing the data, and it creates the HTML data right on the spot. If you want to check it out, it's at "http://epochms.dciem.dnd.ca/cgi-bin/sheet-cgi". >This is pretty preliminary stuff, but I think the concept is valid... >All ideas or comments are welcome! > >Thanks, >Ed Carty Good thinking, Ed. Well, anyone have additional input? Where do we go >from here? Thoughtfully yours, Tom -- gee@dciem.dnd.ca Aircrew Performance/Protective Systems Section Aerospace Life Support Technology Sector From beck@nrlssc.navy.mil Fri Jan 26 10:21:40 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!news.nrlssc.navy.mil!beck From: beck@nrlssc.navy.mil (Jeff Becklehimer) Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,sci.data.formats Subject: Re: Data Exchange in HTML Followup-To: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,sci.data.formats Date: 25 Jan 1996 20:56:31 GMT Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Stennis Space Center Lines: 34 Message-ID: <4e8qpv$82r@filet.nrlssc.navy.mil> References: <1996Jan22.173606.11312@newshub.ists.ca> <4e3mik$dvb@mozart.dciem.dnd.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: abyss.nrlssc.navy.mil X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:45031 sci.data.formats:1341 Thomas Gee (gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca) wrote: : Ed Carty wrote: [snip] : >I'm assuming that the data can be organized in tabular fashion (2-dimensions), : >mostly because it will usually end up in database tables anyhow, but I suppose : >it could be extended to 3-or-more dimensions and maybe a self-describing : >approach like netCDF or HDF, or even include referential cell formulas like : >spreadsheets... (yikes!). : This is where life becomes awkward. Mosaic claims to have builtin support : for HDF files, but either I've got the wrong version or something is : misconfigured, because I can't seem to get it to work. I've found very : little documentation from the NCSA that even mentions HDF support, much : less describes how it works. However, if we can get it working well, this : would be a good way to provide access to large or complex data structures. I know that UNIX version of Mosaic 2.6 does support HDF. I'm not real sure if HDF support ever made it to the non-UNIX versions. It is a really neat feature. If you load an HDF dataset into MOSAIC it will print out the headers and any images that may be in the file. You can check this out for yourself by going to http://www7430.nrlssc.navy.mil/cgi-bin/etopo5_grid.html If you do an area extract and request an HDF file it will be loaded into your MOSAIC browser. Since I put html code into the comments section it will even render the html with hotlinks back to the form where the data came from. What's even neater is that we have built an HDF viewer using X. In the widget that request a file name to open is an option that says "Etopo5". When you select this button it will ask you for the latitudes and longitudes you wish to see. Then using a CCI it will do the extraction >from the web server and plot the data. Very Cool! -- Jeff Becklehimer From gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca Mon Jan 29 12:11:14 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!hermes.dciem.dnd.ca!mozart.dciem.dnd.ca!not-for-mail From: gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca (Thomas Gee) Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,sci.data.formats Subject: Re: Data Exchange in HTML Date: 26 Jan 1996 14:40:54 -0500 Organization: Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine Lines: 32 Sender: gee@dciem.dnd.ca (Tom Gee) Message-ID: <4ebao6$das@mozart.dciem.dnd.ca> References: <1996Jan22.173606.11312@newshub.ists.ca> <4e3mik$dvb@mozart.dciem.dnd.ca> <4e8qpv$82r@filet.nrlssc.navy.mil> NNTP-Posting-Host: mozart.dciem.dnd.ca Xref: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:45224 sci.data.formats:1342 In article <4e8qpv$82r@filet.nrlssc.navy.mil>, Jeff Becklehimer wrote: > >I know that UNIX version of Mosaic 2.6 does support HDF. I'm not real sure >if HDF support ever made it to the non-UNIX versions. It is a really neat >feature. If you load an HDF dataset into MOSAIC it will print out the >headers and any images that may be in the file. You can check this out >for yourself by going to http://www7430.nrlssc.navy.mil/cgi-bin/etopo5_grid.html >If you do an area extract and request an HDF file it will be loaded into >your MOSAIC browser. Ah, very nice. I did do this, and received all the high-level description of the data file, but no image was produced (using xmosaic 2.7b2). Does anyone know if Mosaic supports the Vset capability of HDF? Using HDF3.3r3, Vset has been subsumed into HDF (as opposed to being an add-on package like it used to be), but you still end up using an entirely different API for manipulating them, so perhaps that part has not been implemented into Mosaic. My test HDF file contains quite a number of Vset constructs, and when I load one into Mosaic, it comes up with simply a blank screen. I know the file format is HDF-compatible correct, because it is created entirely with HDF/Vset commands, and some programs (like hdfls) recognize its structure. Curiouser and curiouser... Tom -- gee@dciem.dnd.ca Aircrew Performance/Protective Systems Section Aerospace Life Support Technology Sector From teuben@taurus.astro.umd.edu Wed Jan 31 10:36:52 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!news.umd.edu!teuben From: teuben@taurus.astro.umd.edu (Peter Teuben) Newsgroups: sci.data.formats Subject: Re: time information in ISO 8601 format Date: 31 Jan 1996 03:45:23 GMT Organization: 301-405-1540; U. of Maryland, Astronomy Dept. Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.astro.umd.edu In-reply-to: ejh@larry.gsfc.nasa.gov's message of 30 Jan 1996 10:30:02 -0500 there was a thread in the sci.astro.fits newsgroup some time ago (july 1995), the FAQ of this newsgroup will point youi to the archives of that newsgroup, but here are some snippets from my docs: Check ftp.uni-erlangen.de:/pub/doc/ISO/ISO8601.ps.Z The short form is YYYY-MM-DD (date "+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S") ISO allows both the basic and extended format, i.e. CCYYMMDD and CCYY-MM-DD. If you use time also, here is an example DATE_OBS = 1995-11-16T21:21:15.721Z -- peter -- _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ | URL : http://www.astro.umd.edu/~teuben Peter J. Teuben | INTERNET : teuben@astro.umd.edu ,__0 Astronomy Department | FTP: : ftp.astro.umd.edu _-\_<, / University of Maryland | MA-BELL : (301) 405-1540 (office) (*)/'(*) / College Park, MD 20742 | (301) 405-1502 (secr.) __________/ L 38 58 50 N 76 56 14 W| FAX: (301) 314-9067 Unsoliticated commercial e-mail is subject to an archival fee of $10 per e-mail. Mailing consitutes acceptance of these terms. From gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca Wed Jan 31 10:41:42 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!hermes.dciem.dnd.ca!mozart.dciem.dnd.ca!not-for-mail From: gee@hermes.dciem.dnd.ca (Thomas Gee) Newsgroups: sci.data.formats Subject: Re: Data Exchange in HTML Date: 30 Jan 1996 10:33:55 -0500 Organization: Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine Lines: 60 Message-ID: <4eldp3$1pj@mozart.dciem.dnd.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mozart.dciem.dnd.ca [E-mail posted with permission from Doug Ilg -- his news reader is flaky.] Tom, I would have posted this in sci.data.formats, but my news reader is misbehaving. By way of introduction, I'm a former NCSA HDF developer and I'm still involved in HDF work through NASA's EOS project. > Ah, very nice. I did do this, and received all the high-level description > of the data file, but no image was produced (using xmosaic 2.7b2). Yes, that's all you're gonna get. Since the data is in an SDS, Mosaic won't display it directly. However, you can have Mosaic send the data to another application via CCI or (in older versions) DTM. I can give you details on the DTM stuff, but not CCI. Let me know if you're interested. BTW, if the data were in a raster image, Mosaic would have shown you a [possibly subsampled] inline picture. > Does anyone know if Mosaic supports the Vset capability of HDF? Using > HDF3.3r3, Vset has been subsumed into HDF (as opposed to being an add-on > package like it used to be), but you still end up using an entirely > different API for manipulating them, so perhaps that part has not been > implemented into Mosaic. Vdatas and Vgroups (we don't use the term "Vsets" anymore) are completely supported (sort of). That is, the "Brows-o-rama" will display their names, classes, field names, and data types, but doesn't display the data itself. A bit of a shortcoming :-) If you want to display the contents of a Vdata in HTML, I'd suggest exploring the HDF extensions to the NCSA httpd server program. You can see it at work at http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu:4321/ It's currently at version 0.10a. Many of the comments we gave NCSA about the original Mosaic HDF capabilities were incorporated in the server-side version (many more comments have been made since and we continue to work with NCSA on it). > My test HDF file contains quite a number of Vset constructs, and when I > load one into Mosaic, it comes up with simply a blank screen. I know the > file format is HDF-compatible correct, because it is created entirely with > HDF/Vset commands, and some programs (like hdfls) recognize its structure. Your problem is most likely that your file dosn't have the required ".hdf" extension. Add that to the file name and see if magical things don't start to happen. :-) [And it worked wonderfully! --tom] -Doug ==================================================================== Doug Ilg Hughes STX Corporation EOSDIS Standard Data Formats 7701 Greenbelt Road, Suite 400 Doug.Ilg@gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, MD 20770 USA Voice: (301) 441-4089 FAX: (301) 441-1853 ================= I do not speak for HSTX or NASA ================== From len@trout.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU Wed Jan 31 14:00:59 1996 Path: solitaire.cv.nrao.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!not-for-mail From: len@trout.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Len Makin +61 3 9282 2622) Newsgroups: sci.data.formats Subject: Re: time information in ISO 8601 format Followup-To: sci.data.formats Date: 31 Jan 1996 10:07:39 +1100 Organization: CSIRO Information Technology Lines: 27 Sender: len@mel.dit.csiro.au Message-ID: <4em8br$3lp@trout.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU> References: Reply-To: Len.Makin@dit.csiro.au NNTP-Posting-Host: trout.mel.dit.csiro.au To: ejh@larry.gsfc.nasa.gov (Edward Hartnett) In article , ejh@larry.gsfc.nasa.gov (Edward Hartnett) writes: |> Could someone tell me something about the ISO 8601 standard for |> storing date and time information? http://www.iso.ch/ got me to ISO 8601:1988 Data elements and interchange formats -- Information interchange -- Representation of dates and times ................... Orders for ISO International Standards and other ISO publications should be addressed to the ISO member bodies ................... Your national member is ANSI Address: American National Standards Institute 11 West 42nd Street 13th floor New York, N.Y. 10036 Telephone: + 1 212 642 49 00 Telefax: + 1 212 398 00 23 Internet: smazza@ansi.org http://www.ansi.org/ Paying money gets you access to the standards. Cheers, Len Makin