From tk11+@andrew.cmu.edu Sun Jun 20 20:54:05 1993 X-VM-VHeader: ("From:" "Sender:" "Resent-From" "To:" "Apparently-To:" "Cc:" "Subject:" "Date:" "Resent-Date:") nil X-VM-Bookmark: 2 Status: RO X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil "^From:" nil nil nil]) Newsgroups: sci.astro Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA NNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu From: Truman Kohman Subject: Re: Scientific Date Format Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 15:54:27 -0400 In my posting on this subject (tk11+@andrew.cmu.edu, 93 Jun 4) I wrote: "M-D-Y, as July 4, 1993 ... is the English literary form and the current standard for general use in that language.". Several respondents replied that the British form for general usage is day month year, as 4 July 1993, and that this is also the format of choice in Canada. A perusal of John Donne's letters found dates 2nd February 1601, 13 June, 1607, July 17, 1613, and 25th November 1625, the first and last form most frequently. John Keats used June 29th 1818 and 6th August 1818. Winston Churchill in his four-volume *A History ofthe English-Speaking Peoples* wrote full dates consistently as month day, year; dates in an implied year as month day; and months only as month year (no comma). This brief sampling indicates that there is no single "English literary form", but month day, year probably comes closest. The *Sunday Times* (London) and the English-language *Economic Times* (India) use the form day month year, whereas the *Sunday Times Magazine* and the *Manchester Guardian Weekly* use month day, year. This form is also used by the English-language *Jerusalem Post*, the *Arab News* (Saudi Arabia), *The Hindu* (India), and the *New Straits Post* (Malasia). Thus, month day, year seems to be the preferred form not just in the United States, and is even used somewhat in England. The initial issue of the British scientific journal *Nature* was dated November 4, 1869, and this form was used through September 27, 1969. The next issue was dated October 4 1969 (no comma), and that form was used through February 24 1977. Beginning 3 March 1977 the currently used form was adopted. The American *Science* began publication on February 9, 1883, and used that date form until June 25, 1954. The subsequent issue was dated 2 July 1954, and this form has been used till today. All this strengthens the case for ambiguity when dates are represented by numbers, since both M-D-Y and D-M-Y are in common use within the same language. Confusion will increase when years are also abbreviated with small numbers like 01 and 10, unless a universal standard is adopted. The rational scientific form year month day is probably the most likely to be acceptable. Truman P. Kohman | tk11+@andrew.cmu.edu Department of Physics | tk11@vb.cc.cmu.edu Carnegie-Mellon University | kohman@kelvin.phys.cmu.edu Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA | 412/268-8865 412/561-8343 From nzsm@spis.equinox.gen.nz Thu Jun 24 11:35:05 1993 Status: RO X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] ["1439" "Wed" "23" "June" "93" "00:29:21" "GMT" "NZ Science Monthly" "nzsm@spis.equinox.gen.nz " nil "30" "Scientific Date Format" "^From:" nil nil "6"]) Newsgroups: sci.astro Distribution: world Organization: South Pacific Information Services Ltd From: nzsm@spis.equinox.gen.nz (NZ Science Monthly) Subject: Scientific Date Format Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 00:29:21 GMT In article tk11+@andrew.cmu.edu writes: > In my posting on this subject (tk11+@andrew.cmu.edu, 93 Jun 4) I > wrote: "M-D-Y, as July 4, 1993 ... is the English literary form and the > current standard for general use in that language.". > Several respondents replied that the British form for general usage is > day month year, as 4 July 1993, and that this is also the format of choice > in Canada. > A perusal of John Donne's letters found dates 2nd February 1601, 13 > June, 1607, July 17, 1613, and 25th November 1625, the first and last form You seem to be overlooking the fact that your original posting was about the interpretation of an abbreviated date such as 01/02/03, and the replies to you must be viewed in that context. In such cases, British (and Commonwealth) usage is quite unambiguous as to order - it stands for 1st February ??03. The order M-D-Y is only found where the month is indicated alphabetically (in full or abbreviated). In this context D-M-Y and M-D-Y are both common, but again there is no danger of ambiguity. Problems do arise when the nationality of the writer is unknown, of course... Phil Anderson ============================================================================== New Zealand Science Monthly -- NZ's only general-interest science magazine nzsm@spis.equinox.gen.nz * Fax: (NZ) 03-384-5138 * Tel: (NZ) 03-384-5137